The Relationship between U.S. News Rankings and Part Time Law School

The availability of spots in part time programs may be severely limited in the future, and applying to part time programs may no longer be the "back door" into a better law school. See this WSJ article.

Additional Insights About Law School Rankings

The U.S. News Law School Rankings are Over-Emphasized

I love the idea of the U.S. News law school Rankings going to a "Top 10", 1st Tier, 2nd Tier, Regional Schools listing (as suggested by articles and comments here) because I hate to see law school applicants choose #21 over #24 simply because that's how the schools are ranked in a particular year. What this really shows is that law schools are really offering essentially the same education within a certain ranking range and that prospective law students are not necessarily looking at factors like location, who hires recent grads, where they hope to practice, etc...

"So Ann, tell us how you Really Feel about the Rankings..."

This is getting a little bit off the subject of rankings, but it does tie in with the over-reliance on law school rankings. You'd be surprised how many people decide where to attend law school without actually visiting the campuses they are considering - as though meeting people who run the school and attend the school (and seeing the facilities where they'll be spending 60 hours a week) were completely unrelated to performance in law school and networking in the job market....

For more about my observations relating to the usefulness (or lack of usefulness) of the U.S. News Rankings, see my previous post, "What do the Law School Rankings Really Mean?"

Law School Expert Wants Your Ideas for Future Topics

I am happily accepting suggestions for future blog topics. So feel free to use the comments section to provide ideas.

Please keep in mind that the blog format does not lend itself well to giving individualized advice (for example, your chances at a particular law school given your LSAT/GPA, etc.) For advice related to your specific situation, please consider contacting me through my law school admission consulting website, LawSchoolExpert

Best Law Schools for BigLaw

I have a handful of clients contemplating Columbia, Harvard, NYU, Boalt and Northwestern and here's a timely post by WSJ Law Blog of interest if you're hoping for a BigLaw job after graduation.

Rankings Lead to Increased Transfer Admits

The Faculty Lounge has a great article today about law schools downsizing to jump in the rankings, and compensating by taking more transfer applicants. This is a well-known practice, and applicants are just now starting to get wind of it.

How the University of Buffalo Responds to Dropping 23 Spots

A great article about the big impact little numbers can have on a law school's ranking.

University of Minnesota's Take on the Rankings

Here's another example of a school that hasn't changed much in the rankings since 1996 but is catching flak for going down 2 spots in 2009: University of Minnesota Law School.

Think this school will be watching its incoming LSATs a bit more closely? Probably. With good reason? Probably not. Should be interesting, but we have to remember that the 2009 rankings take 2007 data into account.....

What do the Law School Rankings Really Mean?

Here is a link to an open letter written by Brian Leiter about the flawed methodology of the U.S. News Law School Rankings. Every law school applicant (in deciding where to apply and where to attend) should read it. If you do not read it, you are not doing your homework. Too many law school applicants make their decisions by the rankings; if you are going to stake such a big decision on what a magazine has to say then make sure you understand how law schools manipulate the rankings and why.

A lot of you have been asking me for my opinion about this year's rankings. I believe that looking at only one year's data provides an incomplete (and often overly dramatic) picture. After all, if the rankings will change a year from now then you made a very short sighted decision. And, of course, the rankings must change each year in order for U.S. News to continue to sell their magazine for $9.95.

The following is not a complete analysis of the 2009 Law School Rankings. This is the beginning of a continuing discussion about my observations, presented in no particular order. Also, keep in mind that I am not a statistician.

I decided to compare this year's rankings with those from 2006 to see whether any of the notable rise and fall stories from this year had significant merit (as to both the praise of the rising and the panic of the falling).

Here are my general observations:

• The top 5 schools are exactly the same (Yale, Harvard, Stanford, Columbia, NYU). For the last 4 schools, the overall scores decreased - apparently because acceptance rates were higher.
• In groups of 5, the top 30 schools don't change much over time. So if you limit yourself by applying only to Top 20 schools, you're leaving out 3-5 schools that are in that group in any other year. Who is to say that #24 won't be #19 by the time you graduate?
• The Tier 3 and Tier 4 Schools should not be looked at as "lesser". They should be regarded as "Regional Law Schools." Many of these schools have excellent reputations in their respective geographic regions and are at a disadvantage in the rankings since national reputation is a major factor relied upon by US News. Most lawyers practice law in a particular community for their entire careers. Going to law school in that community has distinct advantages not properly taken into account by the rankings.

Some of my readers have been asking me school-specific questions. I'll address a few of those here:

• There is some panic about Cardozo's ranking dropping this year. In 2006, it was #58 and in 2009 it's#58. That is not a drop I would consider significant.
• Pepperdine has climbed from #77 in 2006 to #59, largely because of acceptance rates. (Bar passage also climbed from 60% to 65%). The school has been under new leadership, and -arguably- more Conservative leadership.
• UNC has dropped 11 places because of employment rates upon graduation. But don't be quick to condemn. Reading Brian Leiter's article may lead me to assume UNC-CH has been (perhaps) more ethical in their employment rate reporting and may be suffering as a result. Just a guess, with a "benefit of the doubt" mentality thrown in to the mix.
• U. Washington going from #24 to #19? Still within my 5-point rule. I'm not worried.
• U. Colorado has climbed from #48 to #32. Nothing substantive has changed except 9 month employment numbers.
• University of San Diego was #63 in 2006 and is now #82 (and in very good company with University of Miami and Loyola Chicago). Acceptance rate changed from 21% to 31% - that's the only major difference in the numbers.
• Those of you deciding between Santa Clara and San Diego should keep in mind that Santa Clara is only ranked one school above San Diego. The difference is absolutely negligible. Don't make this decision based on rankings. (However, in 2006 Santa Clara was Tier 3... it's acceptance rate has doubled but employment and bar passage numbers improved). If you want to be a tax attorney, perhaps San Diego. If you want to practice IP, then perhaps Santa Clara. Do your research.

Those are my comments for now; I look forward to reading all of yours.....

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Fluctuations in Law School Rankings

William and Mary offers a good example of how a law school as a whole doesn't change from year to year, but it's ranking in US News fluctuates. I offer this to prove a point - if you choose a school because it's 26th, rather than going to one that is 35th, you may end up disappointed in your reasoning rather quickly. (William and Mary has been through the ringer with its leadership of late and yet climbed in the ranking?)

I know my readers have been waiting for my overall analysis of this year's rankings - I am working on it and will post this week.

Deciding to Apply to Law School?

Here are 2 more posts I came across today:
U.S. News provided some insight into salary and specialization trends.
Here is one George Washington University Law student's take on the important considerations in rankings.

More About the Law School Rankings

As you know, I've done quite a bit of blogging on both the productive and detrimental reliance of law school applicants (and of the law schools themselves) on the U.S. News Rankings. As you know, the 2009 results have leaked. Here are two good postings you should read to help take the rankings with a grain of salt. The US News rankings are only useful in the appropriate context, so this information is vital to law school applicants:

• Information about Bar Passage rates as an ingredient in the rankings.
• For an example of how one ingredient (UGPA) is unlikely to change the worthiness of an entire law school.

I'm happy to answer any questions and to entertain comments on this. The magazines will be released tomorrow.

2009 US News Rankings Leaked Early!

Thanks to Daniel Filler, Senior Associate Dean for Academic and Faculty Affairs at Drexel University College of Law (and fellow law school issue blogger) for pointing out to me that the US News Rankings have been leaked a bit early. (They are due in print on Friday).
Not sure how a law school can change so much that it jumps from #8 to #6 in one year but no one doubts that Berkeley is a law school to be reckoned with. This will definitely impact Fall 2008 law school applicants as deposit deadlines loom. Talk about timing!
I know I have clients who will change their minds over this little jump. I also have clients that will probably decide not to transfer from Berkeley to a higher-up nearby based on this new release. That's a lot of power for a little magazine....

U.S. News Rankings To Be Released This Month

See this funny faculty post on the upcoming release of US News and World Report's Law School Rankings.

How to Choose a Law School

I just came across a very good posting by LawSchoolTruth about job prospects and law school rankings. I don't know who writes it, but my favorite part was this: "Remember: If you really, really want to be a lawyer, none of this matters. Go to whatever school you want/can!"

Law Students' Priorities Not US News Priorities

There are a lot of good posts in the blogosphere about the recent article in National Jurist by Ted Soto (a professor with whom I worked at Loyola Law School) about what law students think is important in a law school and how the rankings don't take those things into account. Here is a good post about why practical skills and practice-building skills are not taught in law schools (Again - rankings) and why they should be taught.

How Employment Data Skews Law Rankings

Thanks to one of my clients who forwarded me this link today - it's about what will happen to law school rankings in US News once employment data is required to be just a little more truthful.

The most important thing to notice is what I always tell my clients - Don't limit yourself to an arbitrary ranking when choosing schools. If you say "I will only go to a Top 30 School", then what happens when the Top 30 changes slightly the following year? Did you pick a bad school? Of course not. Law schools do not fundamentally change in one year's time, but the rankings have to change or poor U.S. News would sell no magazines or on-line subscription packages.

How to Pick a Law School

Thanks to Brian Leiter for posting a link to this article in the WSJ. Here is more support for why you shouldn't shoose law schools based on rankings alone, and a list of factors you should consider when deciding where to apply and where to attend.
I'm thrilled this issue is garnering publicity at this crucial point in the law school application season. Remember, the idea when choosing where to apply is to keep your options open so you have decisions to make in the spring/summer.

T-14 Not Necessary for BigLaw Jobs

The following is a guest post written by Shirley Li, 2L at Boston College School of Law.

Shirley was one of my law school admission consulting clients when she applied to law school. At the time, she was really upset that her LSAT scores weren't where she wanted them to be - she worked for a big law firm and everyone she knew went to a top-14 ranked law school. Shirley recently e-mailed me to tell me how much she loves Boston College and how happy she is with her job opportunities. I thought this would be helpful to readers who are struggling with the recent blogosphere discussion on the worth of attending law schools outside of the top tier. (If you missed this - see my posting on the issue of the monetary value of a law degree.)

I also want to add something I forgot to post yesterday that the admissions rep at Harvard Law School said - something I totally agree with and that I believes puts a lot of this discussion in perspective -- When asked how many of the applications she reads are "quality applications" she responded: "90%" She said she used to feel badly about dashing people's dreams , but then she realized that all of these people are going to fine law schools and they will have amazing careers. What does this mean? There's not just one way to achieve your goals. And here's Shirley's opinion on the topic:

It's hard to imagine that a year ago I was in your position, debating whether I should apply to law school with my less than stellar LSAT score.

I attended an ivy-league university for undergrad. After graduation, I took a year off and paralegaled at a top-tier NY firm, where I was surrounded by lawyers who got their JDs from Harvard/Columbia/Yale/Georgetown. I knew the value of a name brand law school and pretty soon it was ingrained in my mind that if I went to any law school other than the T-14, I would not be getting a $160K/year job.

I took the LSAT twice (got the same miserable score both) and cancelled a third time. I felt dejected. Despite my pretty decent undergrad GPA, I knew that I would not be getting into a T-14 school no matter how hard I tried. The best schools I got accepted into were Boston College Law School and then off the waitlist at Washington and Lee. I knew W&L was in the middle of nowhere and wouldn't translate well if I wanted to go back to NY.

I visited BCLS (and honestly, at the time I didn't know the difference between BC and BU). During Admit Day, I fell in love with the people there. Everyone I met was friendly and seemed very genuine. I knew they had a very strong reputation in Boston and that it would be very doable for me to transfer back to NY from Boston. I decided to go. I remained extremely worried that I would be racking up lots of debt with no payoff. Everyone also told me that since I wasn't going to a top tier school ( e.g. see above list), I would need to be literally at the top of my class to compete with the Harvard kids.

This past summer, I interned for a federal district court judge in the Massachusetts District Court. I finished pretty well in my class (nowhere excellent, but decent). I wrote onto a journal. I recruited in both NY and Boston. At the end of September, I had offers from two of my first choices-- both of which are nationally ranked in the top 15 by Vault and ranked in AmLaw's A-List as well as the AmLaw 100. Both are firms I thought I would NEVER get into b/c I went to BCLS and because quite frankly, most of the people going to these firms ARE from the T-14. A lot of where you end up is what you put in.

I know classmates who were bottom 50th percentile, but had strong work experience that helped them get BigLaw jobs. Others just did really well in law school, but they came in with weaker undergrad degrees. It all depends on what you have to offer. Yes, my ivy league undergrad helped. My internship with the judge helped. If you are determined to do well, you will. I know friends who are at USC and Georgetown (much higher ranked schools than BC) who cannot get a job b/c they performed poorly in law school.

One last thing-- your LSAT is not indicative of how you will do in law school. Most of my friends on law review (top 10% of the class had LSAT scores below the 25th percentile). Law school is about having a good work ethic and discipline. The main point is, if you are going to law school b/c you don't know what else to do, then you should probably think about it long and hard. However, if you think the law is something that will challenge you and you know that you're going to put in the time and effort, then it's a good option. No matter where you go, you will have to do decently.

Why Going to Law School is Worth The Sacrifice

I am shocked, outraged and offended by the esteemed Anna Ivey today. I think, as a result of her posting today at http://www.iveyfiles.com/2007/09/feast-or-famine.html that I am going to stop having a link to her book on my web site.
Here's why:
Her premise is that it's only worth going to a "top tier" law school and that all other ABA law schools are a waste. She bases her conclusion on starting salaries and tuition dollars.
There's one very big problem with this logic; it fails to take into account salary growth through the years. I will give you a very personal example with very personal details:

I graduated from law school (the University of Miami School of Law, which Ms. Ivey would say was a waste) with loans in 1999. (You can see my interview on the Frugal Law Student for more details about my student loans). When I started practicing law, my starting salary was $65,000. Six months later, I was making $85,000 based on my performance and billable hours. The next year, I made $100,000. My starting salary was not a good indicator of whether my initial law school debt was worthwhile.

Can I use my husband as another example? He went to California Western School of Law. His starting salary as a first year attorney was something like $55,000. But he got bonuses and raises each year and within no time was making a six figure income.

These are just examples from my personal life; Ms. Ivey may not think very much of the schools that we graduated from but I will tell you these were absolutely worthwhile decisions. Today, we have a family and live in Santa Barbara, California where we enjoy a fabulous quality of life and my husband is always home for dinner no matter how many hours he bills.

Besides, if Ms. Ivey wants 180+ law schools in this country to go out of business for lack of students, who will serve the underprivileged? Who will be prosecutors? public defenders? Who will defend homeowners in the insurance bar? Who will take on injured workers? Law is not just about big firms. Is the practice of law a struggle? Is it sometimes a sacrifice? Of course. This is not a career for the lazy or unimaginative. This is a challenging career and a worthwhile one, no matter where you go to law school.

Law Schools are Bullied by U.S. News Rankings

By now you know how I feel about U.S. News Rankings of Law Schools: The rankings are not the most important thing to consider in choosing a law school.

Last week, my post described how law schools are able to manipulate the data that goes into the ranking computation by offering application fee waivers to students they will never admit.
I also talked about how law school administrators and graduates vote on the schools without really knowing anything about them.

What is even more shocking, however, is that law schools keep the consequences of the rankings in mind with every decision - How to spend money, hire faculty, admit students, and create marketing materials. Here is a great article on the subject: http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/533134/
The conclusion of the article is that, because law schools make decisions based on how it will impact their rankings and not how students will benefit, picking a law school based solely on ranking is a mistake. The only reason to pick #31 over #39 is if it's the better law school for you(More on how to pick a law school here)

I apologize if you're getting tired of hearing this from me, but it's very important stuff. Make the best decision for your own future and do not get sucked into pressure. The more you know about what really composes the rankings, the better the quality of your decisions. The ability to ask the tough questions and not be afraid of the answers will serve you well in law school and in your career as an attorney.

Did a Law School Offer you an Application Fee Waiver?

I always learn something while reading Brian Leiter's Law School Reports blog and rankings site and here's a fact he posted about U.S. News Rankings that got my blood boiling (but for once I'm angry at the law schools and not at the ranking-fallacy issue):

"2.5% of the overall score [US News Ranking] is the acceptance rate for students. Highly Manipulable. . . . many schools inflate their "selectivity" by giving fee waivers to applicants who have no chance of getting in. NYU is reported to have pioneered in this arena, but many others have followed suit."

So many of my clients get excited and e-mail me when a school offers them a fee waiver. I don't like that law schools are preying on the hope and vulnerabilities of law school applicants (especially my applicants) and this makes it very easy to fight back -

If your numbers aren't in the realm of realistic possibility for a school and they offer you a fee waiver without knowing anything about you, don't get sucked in. It's a silent protest, but a worthwhile one.